S2 E8 - Building Stronger Pathways for Every Student with Dr. Katie Jenner

Indiana Secretary of Education Dr. Katie Jenner joins Leadership Unscripted with Dr. Greg Steely for a powerful conversation about preparing students not just for graduation, but for meaningful lives of purpose, contribution, and opportunity. As Indiana's first Secretary of Education, Dr. Jenner shares how a unified vision across K–12, higher education, business, and government is reshaping the future of education through bold leadership and measurable outcomes.

Together, Dr. Steely and Dr. Jenner explore what today's students truly need to thrive—from communication, collaboration, and work ethic to civic, financial, and digital literacy. They discuss the importance of experiential learning, workforce readiness, building meaningful pathways beyond high school, and why leadership begins by helping every student discover their purpose.

This episode is a masterclass in systems leadership, change management, and leading with conviction. Whether you serve in education, government, business, or your local community, you'll leave with practical insights on building partnerships, inspiring people, and creating lasting impact.

Listen now to discover what authentic leadership looks like when it's focused on the future of every student.

Leadership Unscripted is brought to you by Growing Leaders a program of the Maxwell Leadership Foundation. Learn more about Growing Leaders at Growingleaders.com and Maxwell Leadership Foundation by Visiting Maxwellleadership.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Talk about your advocacy for connecting K-12 with college and careers. What does it look like to you in Indiana when that's working? And where do you see the biggest gaps right now?

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Too many of our parents felt like their child just didn't have that preparation. Which again, I think as a past high school teacher, we have to look in the mirror. 76% of our students on average, year over year, say, I want to continue my education in some way. Go into some additional training, whether that's at a community college or a four-year. And the reality is we're seeing only about 52% of our students going on right now. That means we're graduating about 16 to 18,000 students every year who walked across our graduation stages with this dream that then never happened.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

We are joined by Indiana Secretary of Education, Dr. Katie Jenner.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

As Indiana's first Secretary of Education and the state's top education official Dr. Katie Jenner is responsible for establishing a unified student-centered vision across the full spectrum of education.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

But uh, think about those relay races where the students like are running full speed and hand that baton back to their next person. And uh we just felt like in Indiana, we were dropping so many batons in the handoffs. The handoffs were just not working. Talking to higher education, business and industry, and our military partners, we brought them all to the table and said, hey, uh, we gotta do better. Here's our data. What is the recipe for success? Ultimately, the main goal get better at that baton pass in that relay race of life.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Your host, Greg Steel. You already did that. Welcome to Leadership Unscripted. That's one of the better ones I've heard. That that's that's really good. Hello, today on Leadership Unscripted, I am so excited. We are joined by Indiana Secretary of Education, Dr. Katie Jenner. She is the state's first secretary of education and leads a unified vision across both K-12 and higher ed. She's been a teacher, a district leader, and worked in higher ed and now helps drive real progress, not just progress, everybody, real progress across Indiana in areas like literacy, graduation rates, and student pathways. Please, please, please welcome to the show, who's becoming a dear friend of ours, Dr. Jenner. Dr. Jenner, thank you for being here. We are so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And please call me Katie and I'll call you uh Greg if that's okay. But so good to be on. Thanks, Greg.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Well, thank you, Katie. Um, let's get right into it. So, Katie, you you you really focus on preparing students for life beyond school. And that's something that that I think more and more states are beginning to realize that life beyond school sometimes is not higher ed. It could be workforce, it could be anything. What what leadership skills are you seeing that they need most today? And how can, how do you think schools can begin to build those intentionally in the lives of students?

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Yeah, so Greg, you're you're exactly right. I mean, if you go into many middle schools, especially middle school, but even other schools across our country, you kind of see middle school students sometimes wandering around with lacking that purpose, lacking that, what do I do next? Which then, if they lack that, right, they don't have any idea what skills they should be developing. So we in Indiana really asked Hoosiers, what are the key skills that students should know by the time they graduate high school, regardless if they're from Gary, Indiana or Evansville, Indiana, or everywhere in between. And uh, of course, you know, Indiana immediately elevated, we need them to read and have uh a STEM, specifically science and math, proficiency. But then they quickly got into those skills like communication. And I feel like with the cell phones, it's becoming even trickier. It's little things like eye contact or shaking hands, or even students who are comfortable in environments uh that are conversational and not just conversational on the fence. Uh, Indiana also elevated collaboration. And a lot of that conversation was around, you know, children are our very best imitators, and how might we teach them to disagree better? Like, what does that look like? And, you know, I think that's a a skill that uh our kids could learn. That's a skill that a lot of us as adults could also brush up on. Uh, but really listening to understand before responding, hearing someone out, finding common realm. Um, then the next thing Indiana elevated was work ethic. Uh they employers especially said, I want kids to come to work. And we quickly responded, and we want kids to come to school. Uh, so that work ethic deeply uh matters. And then finally, uh civic literacy, financial literacy, and digital literacy. Of course, civic literacy uh is is pretty easy to call out. It's definitely knowing how our US government is set up and uh state governments and how to advocate. But it's also about don't wait for a handout, don't wait for a government handout, but be a part of the solution, be a part of your community, contribute to make it better. Financial literacy is probably a pretty easy one that most people know why that matters. Um, and then finally a digital literacy, especially in the AI world, where the skills are gonna start mattering uh probably as much as the knowledge uh because of uh uh kind of the pressure that we're seeing with AI uh shifts. Uh so that was for Hoosiers, designed by Hoosiers. So, Greg, that's allowed us to really scale it across the state.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

That's so good. You talked about something I want to, I want to get your thoughts on. You talked about helping students understand the importance of contributing to society.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

How can this education system do that? What what are some things maybe that you're doing in Indiana that help students understand the importance of not taking not taking the value, but adding value back to the system and the in the community?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Yeah, I I think um I think the first step is lighting the fire of purpose in the child, right? Making sure they know you have something to contribute. You are here for a reason. You are valuable. And then once you can kind of light that fire and they can start to see in their minds, okay, I I am valuable. You know, I can add value here, maybe not there, but here. So, so we have have tried to push that a number of ways. And I would be very, we're humble and hungry on that point. Uh, we're we're still learning through it as well. But, you know, one of the things that we've tried to do is expose Indiana children with yes, knowledge and skill development, but a lot of experiential learning. Actually getting out there and uh letting your value be realized, uh, whether that's in through work-based learning, uh, apprenticeships, internships, or whether that's even through service learning. That is uh, I'd say probably our primary rate ways right now at scale that we're thinking through that.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, I love experiential learning. I love that you said that because that is again, with the age of technology, experiential learning is not something that students are accustomed to, right? They're not accustomed to getting out there and doing something. They're used to behind the phone and figuring something out.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Yeah. And and Greg, the other thing I would add to that is uh, you know, in Indiana, we have 1.13 million students in our K-12 system. And, you know, when I'm on calls like you and I are with the uh Chamber of Commerce or uh philanthropists or whatever, it's often the people in the room having these discussions. If our kids have a big dream, nieces or nephews or own children, we probably have a phone number that we can connect them to that big dream. They want to be a doctor. Well, let me let me call my buddy who knows a buddy who can probably get you in to have a conversation with them. But the reality is the vast majority of our kids do not have a cell phone full of contacts and their parents don't either. And so I think that even in more reasons, like supercharges us in Indiana to do our best to expose kids um as frequently, as often uh as we can to light that fire of purpose and show them what's possible.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Man, I love that. I love light the fire purpose. I love what you just said about the cell phone. Uh you just made me think you're you're exactly right. I bet if I bet you if I went home and looked at my son's cell phone and looked at his contacts, he would have very few contacts, right? They they don't use digital media, they or they don't use that media and phones to connect, right? They don't use it to connect. And what you're saying there is just so important to understand that it's reality. Technology is reality. We use technology for them to help them connect to Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Yeah, and and then again, open up contacts for kids who your son could call you, right? Or well, he wouldn't call you, he'd talk to you at the dinner table and say, Dad, can you connect me? But so many kids don't have a dad like you who can make those connections. So it's yeah, it's a both end for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

That's so good. Let's let's stay in this category a little bit. Talk about your your advocacy for connecting K-12 with college and careers, right? And what does it look like to you in Indiana when that's working? And where do you see the biggest gaps right now?

SPEAKER_02 10:00

So we have we have gone at this very, very hard, Greg. And a lot of it is because we you talked to parents and families and we said, do you feel like your child is prepared when leaving high school? Uh, and we did a Gallup survey at scale. Uh, too many of our parents felt like their their child just didn't have the preparation. Uh, which again, I think, you know, as a past high school teacher, you we have to look in the mirror. The first thing is to listen to understand and get better. The other thing is we we talked to uh students uh and we we watch their debt. 76% of our students on average, year over year, say, I want to continue my education in some way. I want to go into some additional training, whether that's at a community college or a four-year. And the reality is we're seeing only about 52% of our students going on right now. Uh, so that is that means we're graduating about 16 to 18, 18,000 students every year who walked across our graduation stages with this dream that then never happens. So we feel like uh in so many ways, if I I was never a track runner, I was a soccer player, but uh, think about those relay races where the students like so incredibly are running full speed and hand that baton back to their next person. And uh, we just felt like in Enietta, we were dropping so many batons in the handoffs. The handoffs were just not working. So um talking to uh higher education, business and industry, and our our military uh partners, we brought them all to the table and said, Hey, uh, we got to do better. Here's our data. What is the recipe for success? What does it look like for students and parents and families to know much before their junior or senior year, what are the outcomes they need to hit, right, in in high school? And that cost us brag to, uh, which was initially a barrier, uh, and I know it's a barrier in some other states, which is why I flag it. We overhauled our high school diploma and we just called out the recipes uh for each of those uh paths, but also built permeability amongst all of them because kids changed their minds and we should have an environment to do that. We uh have a number of uh uh and I wouldn't even call them gaps, I would solve, I would call them like challenges that we're gonna overcome uh still ahead. Uh one is going back to that experiential learning and and work-based learning. We know the value through research, quantitative, qualitative. Uh so how do we build a system where our students can really work with business and industry, employers in the service? What is a systematic uh look? Uh you know, how can we build that? And then the other is uh credentials of value. Credentials of value, Greg, or those are uh, and I don't know about your son, but uh in Indiana, uh about 62, 64% of our students leave with college credit. Uh when they graduate high school, the average student leaves with 14.1 credits, which is about one class from a college credential. Once you earn that college credential, no one can ever take it away. And as light hits you after graduation, you always have that. And it could be stackable. Uh so making sure our students have great access to these credentials of value. And again, ultimately the main goal, get better at that baton pass uh in that in that relay race of life. Uh so uh we the other thing I would call out, Greg, is like we have we have worked to build an army of people who are with us. I think that is uh uh why Indiana is moving at the pace that we are, is because we have uh not only, again, our higher education partners, our business and industry leaders uh who we talk to both every day, our military divisions who we talk to constantly, philanthropy community, uh local mayors, et cetera. And we've tried to do our best to supercharge the communities because that's where the real uh I think magic and action happens. Let's supercharge our communities, let's get the barriers out of the way at the state and federal level, and um uh and then spotlight those that are just knocking it out of the park for kids. Uh so uh I again we're gonna stay humble and hungry. We have absolutely done a lot of work. We've aligned uh a pretty massive system that has been the same for a hundred years. Um, I shouldn't say aligned, we've overhauled that system that's been about the the same. And then uh we are hyper aware that we have a to-do list that we're gonna keep on driving for it on.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

I love that. I'm gonna tell you, you you are so passionate. You're so passionate. I love I'm just like by how passionate you are about this. We're gonna talk about your leadership in a second, but because of this passion, I know you've got to have an incredible team around you. Talk to our talk to our audience a little bit about what is a what does a war room look like for for your team, for you guys when you're talking about some of these bigger issues? What do y'all, how are you getting in a room and finding, hey, this is the path we need to take? Are you are you out on the field talking to teachers, bringing that information back? Are you going on going on experience? Like, what does that look like in that room? Because a lot of these, a lot of our audience, you're trying to figure out how do we tackle these big ideas that we have with our team.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Yeah, so um I so I I uh I'm a teacher, so I'm gonna use a lot of you know analogies or um metaphors here, but uh almost imagine like uh, you know, you're you're boarding a boat. What is your destination? My destination is here, and you see that destination very, very clearly. And it's okay, um, who do we want to board on this boat and journey with us? Who do we need once we get there? Uh and and boarding that boat is uh probably the most strategic part of this. We see where we want to go. We want to overhaul our diplomas and make them better for Indiana. Who do we need? We need we need the superintendents association, we need the principal's association, we need this teacher group and counselor group, we need business and industry, we need higher ed, we need uh military, we need philanthropy. All of those people we work early and often to board the boat with us. Like they're helping with the planning, they're helping with thinking through, knowing that we have at the same destination. This is our end goal. But um, you know, and the the the the a lot of the goal is then here again, you get as many people with you so that when you charge forward uh and and you turn around and say, Do I still have people? I mean, are they that they are all right there uh with you? And again, knock on wood, we do not take it for granted. Uh, but but that's the the army that we've built, and um, that has allowed us to drive change fast. I'll also flag, Greg. Um we have had an incredibly successful. I work for two governors now, Governor Eric Holcomb and now Governor Mike Braun. They have uh uh essentially been like clear the way, just let her go, let her bring people, let her just do it. Uh and then um our our speaker of the house and uh President Pro Tim of the Senate have done the same. Uh I mean, they just uh now I'm a little persistent, uh, but if I can't convince them, I pull someone else who can. And um, I don't doubt that, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

I don't doubt your persistence, yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but that's also allowed us to again drive hard and fast and uh uh really overhaul a system. Um, but but Greg, I can't emphasize enough. We have uh the the change management has truly been built at the community level, bringing together the change agents that I named and getting them on the boat early, making them feel a part of it because they are while we're doing it, uh, you know, to get to that other side and get that barrier all of the way.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

That's so good. And I, you know, I I think a lot of that it's gonna be, you know, the reason you're successful in that is because your history as a leader in education. I mean, you were, you know, you you were a teacher, a school leader, policy advisor. Now you're the secretary of education. You just kind of rose up there. And so you've been in the community at so many different levels. How is your leadership style, you feel like, evolved across all of the roles that you have? And what has stayed consistent no matter what, at whatever level, like this is this is who Katie is, this is always who Katie's gonna be. But there are things that evolve depending on what you know how you move through the system.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Sure. So let me just let me start with the the latter question. What is state consistent? Uh my faith is is my foundation. Uh, I mean, I wish I could, uh a lot of people will say, Greg, well, Katie always gets what she wants, right? Well, which is not always true, number one, but what people don't see is behind the scenes. Uh getting on my hands and knees, just praying that we can get through the rough, rough times. Uh, leadership is so hard. I think for all on the call to get to get what you want, you have to believe in it so deeply. You have to surround yourself with the the right army of people. You have to, in my opinion, um uh say your prayers and make sure you're you're following your purpose. Uh so again, faith is my number one. Um going back to that that point about um being able to, you know, drive change and you know, getting the things we want done, done. Uh I have learned so many lessons along the way that have really changed who I am. Uh I shared with folks uh some. Uh the only job that I've ever applied for that I've gotten was a lifeguard in high school.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Uh that was great.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Uh I have uh uh, you know, applied for jobs that uh, and one in particular that that I did not get. And and by the way, had a level of devastation, like uh so bunged. Uh but when I look back, Greg, if I had gotten that job, I would never have had this path. And I believe the good Lord had a different plan for me. It was like a God wink for me. That's why I did not get that job. And those in my local community are aware of that and they'll say the same thing. So knowing again, growing as a leader, knowing that, gosh, sometimes things don't work out how you want them to, but then you'll realize later why that happened. Um, the other thing I would flag is um I always share like you you only have so much water in your bucket as a leader, right? So much time and resources. We all do. Only so much. And I've watched over the years leaders, it it's it's where they use their water. So uh, do you water the flowers, the weeds, or the rocks? Those are really the three when you're driving change. If you water the rocks, Well the rocks aren't going anywhere. They're gonna be the same place tomorrow. You water the weeds. Well, the weeds, uh, they'll take all the water you give them. I mean, they will they will attack your they might be with you. Uh some of them bloom, but they will attack your ideas like crazy, right? They will so we work hard as a teen to put our water in watered flowers. Water the people who give it to others, give it to the people who will just bloom and like we can point to uh left and right. And I tell you, Greg, uh looking back, um, I've used a lot of water on rocks, a lot of water on leads, because I used to think you have to get everyone to drop uh change. And that has been a huge lesson learned. The last thing I'll just uh mention is uh and I've always known this, but uh the longer I'm I'm at it, who you surround yourself with is everything. It's every uh it's uh uh I mean I my my team, um while I'm often, you know, out front, my team is really who's making it happen. The the team uh in the Department of Education, but also the team of external partners and stakeholders that I mentioned. Uh and and I'm a big believer that uh when you sense kind of yellow red flags with people like you, you need to start distancing yourself. If if they're gonna pull you down at all, you've gotta uh even if you like that person and you've always wanted to be with that person, you gotta, you gotta heed that gut feeling, surround yourself with people who will be honest with you, you know, tell you when you're wrong, but people who will build you up and and push you to be better. So uh our our team of people I could not be more thankful for. And uh uh again, they're also uh because of that, I I tend to maybe trust them more than uh I probably used to micromanage. Now I feel like I'm in a therapy session, Greg. Uh I I probably used to micromanage a little too much. Now I feel like, okay, go forth and uh do great things. Um so those are just a few of the many, many uh lessons and truly struggle points that uh people would not know if they just look at the success stories. They would have no idea. But it has been um, it's it's not been easy along the journey.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

So yeah, John says leadership's a process, but there is no destination when it's leadership because it's always changing over and over and over again. That's so good. All right, I got some rapid fire questions as we close here. So these are coming out of these, these are these are gonna hit you. You don't even know about them. And so these are just real quick answers, all right. First, first one is if you had 30 minutes to have coffee with any leader in the world, dead or alive, who would it be and why?

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Oh so first one that pops in my head is Abraham Lincoln. Um, part of that is because he, well, my roots are from Kentucky. My family was from LaRue County, Kentucky, where he spent. Um but I mean, he uh I believe brought together a nation, right? That uh, and and I just would love to sit down and understand why and how he did that. I also um in in some of his the books about him, uh, you know, he of course had some people who were very against him and his his uh driving towards change and bringing people together. And he would write letters and uh never send them and like tear them up. I'd like to know what was in those letters. I just need to know that he too was uh uh lived it and lived the tough moments. But those would be, I mean, I I'd love to talk to him.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

That's so good. All right, second question. Uh Katie's not not leading teams. She's not, you know, she's not being a uh a woman of the community, a leader. What would we find Katie doing on an off? Not that you have it, but what would you be doing on an offer by yourself, just being Kate?

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Okay, two things. Friday night, my favorite Friday night this time of year. Uh we live on a tiny lake in southern Indiana. And I'd we'd get we get on our pontoon boat, and the lake is so tiny, we turn our music on, and we might go around this lake like 30 times on a Friday night, and our neighbors will hop on from their docks or they'll go get their little fishing boat out. But that is my Friday night uh throughout summer and into the fall. Um on a on a Saturday, my favorite Saturday is watching my my twin daughters who are juniors in high school play soccer. Um they are uh uh you know, a lot of parents say, Oh, my kids the best athlete, the best this. My kids, uh we're probably gonna listen to this. My kids are are fine, like they they're average, um, but they work hard. Uh that makes sense. And I love watching them hustle and just get out there and push themselves, but also uh encourage their teammate. That would be uh, those are some a couple of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

And uh I would imagine are y'all gonna be watching soccer today at three o'clock? Or are the are the girls watching?

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Absolutely a hundred percent. Will you be watching?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

I'll be working. Uh my assistant got on to me today because she's her girls play soccer and she's going home to watch and she's like, you're gonna watch it. I was like, I'll probably be here, but I I'm gonna I'm getting there. I'll get home as soon as I can to watch it.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Yes. In fact, I almost wore my red, white, and blue uh sleeveless, like like game shirt, but I thought it would be too much for this. Uh but I'll be putting that on and we're cheering them on.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

And the face paint, you decided not to do the face paint as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Not gonna do the face paint. Uh we'll save that for another day.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

All right, last question. Um, all right, so I'm not because I know you're I know you have roots in Kentucky. We're not so I'm not gonna ask you a basketball question because that you're you're in a very that's a very tough spot for you. That is a very so we're not gonna talk basketball. Indiana football, lose your football, right? Coming off a national championship, uh, surprised, surprises everybody, right? Even though they were they didn't they didn't lose, but they surprised everybody. Um what is what was the key for you watching watching that football team, knowing the coach, which I know y'all all know because he's he's really connected to you guys. What was the key to that team's uh success in your in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

You know, I I feel like a couple things. Um their fire in them, their purpose, and I've talked to many of the players. They had something to prove, Greg. All of them that I've talked to, each one of them has a story, again, about being told, no, you can't, or you're not good enough for here, or and they have this like fire in them. Like they wanted to prove that yes, they could. That was part of the special sauce. But then the other, I I get, I mean, Kurt Signetti, I think, I mean, I think he could do a clinic on this, but bringing together a team. Uh, you know, how do you take the fire that was in each of them about I have something to prove and I I want to, you know, do the best I can. But how do you how do you build a team and pull them all together? Uh one of the recent stories with him about one of the new team members is, and maybe you saw this, but one of them wore gold cleats uh on like the first day of practice, and he pulled the student athlete aside and was like, Yeah, we don't do that here. Like we are one. It's not about one star, and we are we are one. So, I mean, those are just a couple of the things I would flag. And then uh, in terms of uh being a Hoosier fan, uh I can't tell you how many tailgates over the 20 years I've been in Indiana, where sometimes we don't even go into the game. We just listen to it because we we knew the result, you know, we'd be there without so you know, the past couple years, the the level of energy and kind of you know pride that people have around the the Hoosiers and um, I mean, they have an underdown story, which uh I think we all as people love to see because it shows you if they can do it, we can do it. But those players, they were told no so many times. Every single one of them has this story. That's why I don't know how long this movie's gonna be about them, that it's probably gonna need to be a series because they each have a story. Um, but man, they persisted and they they showed a lot of people what they could do.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Well, that's so good. I I will say this as we close. I've I've now spent time with Governor Braun and now spent time with you. And I can say um this the students of Indiana are in great hands, and the parents of Indiana hands of leaders, of leaders who like that football team are showing students that you are valued, you have something to prove. We're gonna help you get to the line. And um, and now spending time with both of you, you are you both and and you specifically, Katie, are tremendous leaders for that state. If I will say this, if you live in a surrounding state, maybe move to Indiana because Indiana's got more when it comes to leadership and to kids. And um, and we are so fortunate and and honored to have you with us today on this podcast talking to the audience. I know they get a lot out of it. Um, and I hope we can do it again sometime. I hope we get to meet in person sometime. I hope so too. I'd love to sit and learn more about you and what we can do to add value to you guys and and help you in that process. So um, Katie, thank you so much. Thank you so much for today.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

And Greg, let's let's absolutely book that that in-person meeting, and I'm gonna turn the table on you and ask you some questions. So just be ready. I'll learn from you too.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

I'll be, I won't be, I will not be as fired up and passionate as you. I can tell you that. I can't, I won't be able to equal that, but I'll do my best. I'll do my best. Okay, good. Thank you. Go, USA. Enjoy time with your daughters. Um, go Hoosiers. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Go go Hoosiers, go Indiana, and everybody's welcome. Come on, come on to the Hoosiers stay. Take care, Greg.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Great. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Thank you.